Curse

Yol · Mar 17, 2010, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Makes a change to see some moans about SF without it referring to shadow form

/ontopic....when EotN was released, and I found out that the dredge were in it, I hoped that there would be a link from the depths of tyria (battledepths) to sorrows furnace. Alas, I was wrong. Sorrows and Tombs need an update, even if it's just an end chest.

bitchbar player · Mar 17, 2010, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Compared to sorrow's Furnace the EOTN dungeons just look terrible, it is by far the best designed dungeon in GW. Good memories, I cant understand why no one has said anything about the gear trick.

AlsPals · Mar 17, 2010, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Ahem, Bitchbar. One of the best designed areas in GW. Period. I really wish they would give some community devs some insider work so the people can revamp such places. Man GW was the shit back in '05. Hell, beta.

isildorbiafra · Mar 17, 2010, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Nothing. Its still there last time I checked.

The Scorpion Knight · Mar 18, 2010, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

Yes.

-=*12prettyletters*=-

Quote:

Originally Posted by colosusjokers

As jonnie said. Yes, you can. My guild and I did it a little over two weeks ago I think it was. It actually seemed drastically easier than it used to be.

Thanks, I'll be sure to give it a shot sometime soon.

Phaern Majes · Mar 18, 2010, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Guild Wars started off great because you had to work to get skills. People say that prophecies is full of pointless towns, not always so. They are pointless now but at the time you had to reach them if you wanted the skills they offered. If I remember correctly the last town didn't always offer every skill either, only the ones you unlocked on the account (maybe its still that way, having unlocked every skill I couldn't test this).

With SF was the introduction of greens. Again at the time they were great, low req weapons/offhands with perfect mods. Inscriptions didn't exist until Nightfall and shields weren't modifiable at all. Later, several bosses in Factions dropped greens, and inscriptions came with Nightfall. Now the only thing you have to do is find a max damage weapon with a low enough req and you can make it 15^whatever or 20% HCT/Recharge.

Simply put, greens were Anet's way of allowing casual players to get "perfect" weapons without endless farming for the lucky drop or the gold/ecto to buy them (emphasis on endless, because yes you still had to "farm"). Mechanic changes to the weapon system have made them obsolete, with the exception some people do like the skins. I still think Magmus' Staff is one of the coolest in game.

Swahnee · Mar 19, 2010, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Guild Wars started off great because you had to work to get skills. People say that prophecies is full of pointless towns, not always so. They are pointless now but at the time you had to reach them if you wanted the skills they offered. If I remember correctly the last town didn't always offer every skill either, only the ones you unlocked on the account (maybe its still that way, having unlocked every skill I couldn't test this).

You're right. I've recently bought the Complete Collection for my brother, and i'm playing with him through Tyria, using this page

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Trainer_locations

to check which skills he is able to buy when we reach a new town or a new outpost. The last town visited offers only skills already available in previous outposts or as rewards of previous quests.

zwei2stein · Mar 19, 2010, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Guild Wars started off great because you had to work to get skills. People say that prophecies is full of pointless towns, not always so. They are pointless now but at the time you had to reach them if you wanted the skills they offered. If I remember correctly the last town didn't always offer every skill either, only the ones you unlocked on the account (maybe its still that way, having unlocked every skill I couldn't test this).

With SF was the introduction of greens. Again at the time they were great, low req weapons/offhands with perfect mods. Inscriptions didn't exist until Nightfall and shields weren't modifiable at all. Later, several bosses in Factions dropped greens, and inscriptions came with Nightfall. Now the only thing you have to do is find a max damage weapon with a low enough req and you can make it 15^whatever or 20% HCT/Recharge.

Simply put, greens were Anet's way of allowing casual players to get "perfect" weapons without endless farming for the lucky drop or the gold/ecto to buy them (emphasis on endless, because yes you still had to "farm"). Mechanic changes to the weapon system have made them obsolete, with the exception some people do like the skins. I still think Magmus' Staff is one of the coolest in game.

Skill-towns are present even in Nightfall, that did not change much (and with hero skill points, you have solid reason to look forward to, say, Lair of Forgotten to unlock Mark of Pain from hero skill trainer)

Anyhow, SF greens were not obsoleted by mechanical chances but are more of subject to green-inflation. Typical SF green is prefect in sense that all stats that are on it are max, but it is not 'too perfect' as generally weapon have stats that people do not really look for (lightning damage bows, staff with deepwound shortening). Basically, they were great upgrades from collector items with valid player market but people were really looking for 20/20 15^50 +30 hammer instead of Thorgall's Stone Smasher in long run.

What happened later is that devs gave people what they wanted: perfect stuff in image of how people modded weapons for sale to pimp them that is easy-ish to farm. Obvious result: nothing older kept value. Thorgall's Stone Smasher simply can not complete with Deldrimor Maul / Droknar's Maul / Durgon's Maul / Eldritch Maul / Forgotten Hammer / Havok's Maul / Jormungand's Thunder / Kanaxai's Mallet / Vera. Not even if you want cheap 1k hammer because noone is going to keep that for sale.

October Jade · Mar 19, 2010, 11:42 PM // 23:42

This has been discussed elsewhere, but I thought it was a nice idea so I'll bring it up once more. It was suggested that the endgame greens have a mix-and-match feature instead of being limited to what the collectors currently offer. For example, I always prefer the +5 armor suffix over +30 health. But how many greens, in all four games, offer that? Only two bows and a handful of staves. And these items aren't even useable because the other mods are crappy.

This issue was sorta resolved with the addition of the gold item crafters, but it can be taken a step further. Why not offer a fully customized (in both senses of the term) green that is specific to the character? Instead of wielding an axe that bears Kanaxai's name, it would be fun to have my own October Jade's Sword or whatever. Make it available in any core or campaign-specific skin. Who cares if everyone has a rare skinned green; these items would have no trade value at all. The market will still be there for those players who feel compelled to ctrl+click "I'm wielding a Sundering Crystalline Sword of Fortitude."

Acknowledging that this concept will never exist in the current game, I'm hoping that something similar appears in GW2.

Phaern Majes · Mar 20, 2010, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Anyhow, SF greens were not obsoleted by mechanical chances but are more of subject to green-inflation. Typical SF green is prefect in sense that all stats that are on it are max, but it is not 'too perfect' as generally weapon have stats that people do not really look for (lightning damage bows, staff with deepwound shortening). Basically, they were great upgrades from collector items with valid player market but people were really looking for 20/20 15^50 +30 hammer instead of Thorgall's Stone Smasher in long run.

At the time SF was released there were several greens that everyone wanted - Victo's Sword, Axe and Shield, Rago's Staff, Wand, and Off-hand, Wroth's items, and plenty of others.

I agree that if you had a choice between that perfect gold colored item and a green people always go for the gold. But at that time finding a low req perfect weapon/offhand with the inherent mods and skin you wanted was pretty slim and could cost a small fortune.

Greens were very much in demand, I remember selling Rago's Flamestaff for 60k+, Wroth's set for 40-50k, never got a Victo's myself but I remember them selling for over 100k and Tanzit's wasn't far behind. This went on for a couple months and even then prices declined slowly until Factions came out ~7 months later.

RhanoctJocosa · Mar 20, 2010, 07:52 PM // 19:52

i'd be up for it just because it would bring back good memories....

Orry · Mar 21, 2010, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

At the time SF was released there were several greens that everyone wanted - Victo's Sword, Axe and Shield, Rago's Staff, Wand, and Off-hand, Wroth's items, and plenty of others.

Victo's items weren't wanted until after they were released with the tomb's update, since the Darknesses drop them in Hall of Heroes(explorable).

Phaern Majes · Mar 21, 2010, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

Victo's items weren't wanted until after they were released with the tomb's update, since the Darknesses drop them in Hall of Heroes(explorable).

Must have be thinking Tanzit's then, been a long time since I did any of those. But I remember the warrior set out of SF was going for 100k+ for quite some time.

FengShuiDove · Mar 21, 2010, 06:13 PM // 18:13

No market for greens, and no better rewards than that.

Step 1: New DAW contest
Step 2: Put the winners (exclusively AND rarely) as drops in a new Sorrow's Furnace and Tombs of the Primeval Kings end chest.
Step 3: Hooray

kosh · Mar 21, 2010, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Must have be thinking Tanzit's then, been a long time since I did any of those. But I remember the warrior set out of SF was going for 100k+ for quite some time.

its still a big shame they never did made like random drops of gold Tanzit's Defender and Drago's Flatbow,

all around 5 man OrO was big fun time for me back in the days, and as people said none of the eotn dungeons come close to how SF was designed.

you see that in SF you dont have to have any fancy ideas to make a dungeon worth wild.

good placed mobs, amazing scenery, good items(greens for that time made a good buck and still the market wasn't overflown with them),

chests- just the fact that you dont get an end one but you have the reg ones, miners and the no keys ones at killroys.

no one boos - same as chests basically, scatter them around the place, and give each a green.

some quests inside - doing the whole things inside was always fun. cold as ice for one is still a very funny small little quest.

imo those are the things that people used to love about SF and gw as a whole. and with NF/EoTn some of us felt that those aspects did not came into motion in those elite areas.

oscarmk · Mar 23, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Would anyone like to do this with me?. I remember I tried to do this a few times when it was released with a few PUGs groups but failed all the time lol. If anyone is interested in doing this with me please send me a PM =).

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 23, 2010, 03:48 PM // 15:48

It's in Prophecies, which sucks ^ ^

Yawgmoth · Mar 23, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40

One of the best things about Sorrow's Furnace was that it's not linear and offers different setups, challenges and rewards if entered with a different quest or without any quest at all. That's why having an End Chest doesn't really fit - it would turn to simple speed runs to the chest, not reviving the old fun. Reworking the Final Assault to work like Duncan - requiring redoing all the quests every before the final runs would be a must, but still it doesn't feel right.

The way to revive this awesome place would be to reinforce the reasons people played it back then - diversified repeatable content with a great selection and distribution of good unique rewards.

Talking about distribution of rewards, it's the bosses that always mattered in SF and now the Miner's Chests could also really use a major loot table update. There's a good variety of possibilities for unique special drops that could return or be intruduced as SF exclusives. Dual reduction shields, no req staffs, oldschool Para shields and spears (chance for dualvamp!), green focus items with HSR and +1(20%) for attributes that don't have them yet, and even weapons with unconditional +%dmg inherent mod (occassionally +10%, rarely +11%, uberrare +12%, ?? +13%, No 14-15%). It's Tyria, Prophecies, the home of oldschool goods. Gold Tanzit's shields would be also a great choice for a Proph exclusive skin (Factions has many, Proph none).

Anyway we can't expect any changes anytime soon, so Sorrow's fans mark your calendards - Sorrow's Furnace "The Iron Forgeman" Z-Quest is coming 1st April and there should be many PuGs forming that day.

zwei2stein · Mar 23, 2010, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Gold Tanzit's shields would be also a great choice for a Proph exclusive skin (Factions has many, Proph none).

Now, there is an idea!

SF has some nice skins that can only be found on SF greens:

Morgriff's Staff
Shadestone
Drago's Flatbow
Brohn's Staff
Willcrusher (!!!)
Villnar's Claw

Tanzit's Shield might be main attraction, but not necesarily the only one.

Painbringer · Mar 23, 2010, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Pipedream

Start alternating mini quests for the furnace one week it is just like it is now. The next week re-open it with the dredge have taken control of the furnace. You find a half dead dwarf standing outside the furnace entrance he is willing to give you experience and gold to cleanse the furnace. The furnace is now populated with all classes of dredge and new dredge bosses, and one final elite boss. A gigantic mole creature located in the furnace area. Small little quests need to be completed to open the doors and advance to the final boss. Once the final boss is defeated a end chest spawns …dreaming again